Marie-Philippe Bouchard took the helm as president and CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada early this year, at a time when all eyes were on the public broadcaster and its future as a bastion of cultural sovereignty. Bouchard came to the role with a wealth of broadcasting experience, prepared to steer the ship through whatever storms may be looming.
As representative of hundreds of independent Canadian producers, the CMPA’s president and CEO, Reynolds Mastin, has his own questions for Bouchard—around new financing models for CBC series, the shrinking kids’ market, the centrality of IP ownership in the definition of Canadian content, and more. Here, the two leaders discuss what’s on the industry’s mind.

Reynolds Mastin: You spent the majority of your career at CBC/Radio-Canada. Then you went on to become the CEO of the broadcaster TV5 Québec Canada. So you came into this role with both an insider and an outsider perspective. Was this job what you expected, based on those experiences, or have you been surprised?

Marie-Philippe Bouchard: You’re right, I was very much a child of the organization. And working across French and English
services gave me an overview of the whole landscape. What I expected to find when I started this job, considering the very polarized climate around the financing of CBC, was an embattled group that had been subject to a lot of criticism. In the early days of my tenure, listening to different groups and visiting our regional stations out west, I was comforted by the many voices who were supportive of what CBC was doing.

There are also criticisms about the service that we provide. That largely stems from the fact that we have been subject to many, many reductions of funds over the years. Also, the market has changed so much. Both English and French audiences are flooded with content. How do you make the distinctive Canadian experience stand out? That’s something that we’re all working and striving for.

RM: On that topic, I want to discuss the North of North model, where CBC, Netflix, APTN and producers came together to make that show. The series has been very successful, both critically and in terms of audience. Obviously a player like Netflix brings financing to the table, but they also have that global reach. Is this a model you plan to continue using in the future?

MB: North of North is a good example, but it’s not isolated. In the last few years, we’ve been working with partners—sometimes with the foreign streamers, but also with foreign distributors and foreign broadcasters—to make quality Canadian content that will resonate with Canadians, but can also reach wider international audiences. There need to be many players at the table for that to happen.

Really, what a public broadcaster does is work with producers who have the idea and creative talent, and develop that idea for its potential. We invest. We take the risk. We greenlight the project. But we know we need more money at the table, as well as more creative input. Foreign distributors and other public broadcasters lend a perspective that enriches the production. Together, we have an opportunity to bring to light these incredible shows—but it takes many at the table. In the English market, at least, we can get that influx of funds from a partner like Netflix. That model also means figuring out how we’re going to share those rights, especially with foreign streamers that are very much present in Canada.

In the case of North of North, I want to point out that before we entered into the Netflix deal, we partnered with APTN. And that is very important: we can partner with Canadian broadcasters and share some of those rights, and this allows everybody to be able to bring their touch to the project and also to reach their particular audiences.

RM: How do you ensure that you’re preserving that distinct Canadian voice, while the streaming service brings its own creative input and is thinking about an audience that goes well beyond Canada?

“Our philosophy is to work very closely with the producers to enable the original Canadian creative process, and to support the development of the project so that it will have legs.”

Marie-Philippe Bouchard, President and CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada

MB: Our philosophy is to work very closely with the producers to enable the original Canadian creative process, and to support the development of the project so that it will have legs. The project will be able to not only reach Canadian audiences and satisfy them, but also have a potential to showcase what Canadians can do and their creativity. That’s our part, and we enable that with funds, with advice, and with risk-taking.

RM: That’s one of the things that CBC has in common with producers: taking risks. Part of the reason producers take those risks is that they expect to be able to monetize the IP they create, which allows them to reinvest in development and make the next piece of IP. Throughout the CRTC hearings on the Online Streaming Act, we talked a lot about the importance of Canadian IP ownership. What are your thoughts on the importance of that as one of the pillars of our modernized system?

MB: CBC has been entirely consistent in saying, very loud and clear, that Canadian content is produced by Canadians and owned by Canadians. It can include all sorts of stories, it can be about all sorts of things, but the nature of it is that the IP is owned by Canadians, and it was produced in the key functions by Canadians. That’s the best and most stable way to define it.

It’s also the most sustainable way. Because we do understand that producers take risks, and they are counting on some financial upside to the life of the production over time. So we continue to need viable independent producers in Canada to be able to continue our work. The best way for that to happen is to place serious protection around the notion that the privileges of Canadian content will be awarded to those who are Canadian, and own the content.

RM: Let’s discuss the state of kids’ content. I remember, in my opening remarks at Prime Time 2024, I had a special guest star, and it was the tickle trunk from Mr. Dressup. A year and a half later, people still come up to me to talk about the tickle trunk. It speaks to the power and importance of children’s content, because Mr. Dressup was clearly integral to people’s childhoods growing up. They have a very powerful emotional attachment to that show and to everything about that show.

As you know, we’re experiencing crisis in the kids’ industry at the moment. Especially in Canada, it’s under enormous pressure. Going forward, what do you think CBC’s role is in finding a way to rebuild and restore what was once one of the strongest pillars of the domestic content industry for Canada?

MB: Certainly, the kids’ industry was a powerhouse of Canadian content production, for many, many reasons— including the fact that, at that time, kids were watching a lot of conventional TV. They weren’t on TikTok. They weren’t on YouTube. There was a demand for kids’ content and Canadian expertise. But as the cost of animated shows continued to rise, the market sort of dissolved. Kids are now consuming all sorts of things, including programming that wasn’t made for them. We are all nostalgic for how we grew up, attached to safe kids’ programming made for us, compared to how our kids are now growing up.

What is the role of the CBC in all of this? We are, and we continue to be, major contributors for the kids’ sector, because we commission Canadian content. We partner with a lot of foreign broadcasters, usually public broadcasters, to broadcast Canadian content not just here, but around the world. But we can’t solve the contraction in the market all by ourselves.

We can’t change the fact that streamers, for example, are commissioning less kids’ content. But we can be steadfast in what we commission. We may need to work more with other Canadian public service broadcasters, such as the educational services in the various provinces, and across French and English, because many languages can support an animation project. I think we need to widen our partnerships. Our job is also to make sure that kids’ content gets in front of kids’ eyes, and that may mean commissioning content that will maybe find its way onto third-party platforms, under the safe CBC umbrella. We need to reach kids where they are.

RM: I think it’s particularly important, when we’re talking about kids’ programming, to talk about what Canadian kids see in the Canadian programming they watch. I’ve heard you speak elsewhere about the need to ensure that CBC/Radio-Canada’s programming fully reflects the depth and breadth of Canadian society. Can you share those thoughts here?

MB: We really want to tap into the creativity and ability of producers from across the country, and make sure that our content reflects that cultural touch that’s different from the west coast to the east coast to the far north, and everywhere in between. We also need to reflect the communities from a language point of view, particularly minority languages—so our strategy for Indigenous reflection and empowerment is really important from both a cultural and language point of view.

We are very committed to working with producers from all areas and sensibilities, and making sure that they hire talent that reflects that diversity as well. It is really about nation building, right? You feel part of the community when you know your neighbours, including the people who live a little further from where you live. And that is the magic of media: creating bridges between those distances.

This is also true between generations. Our kids and our adolescents and our young adults are thinking things that are not necessarily what their elders are thinking. Each generation needs to understand that. That’s the basis of what a public broadcaster is there for: it’s not to narrowcast, it’s to bring people together.

“Discoverability is part of how we work with producers: making sure that people are aware of the content, that it’s accessible, and that it’s promoted.”

RM: Again, related to the Online Streaming Act, we’ve talked a lot about access to our stories and what that means for Canadian content on online platforms. We’re expecting a CRTC-commissioned study this fall on how Canadians find and discover content. What are your thoughts on the challenges of discoverability?

MB: Discoverability is part of how we work with producers: making sure that people are aware of the content, that it’s accessible, and that it’s promoted. It used to be just the broadcaster’s job, but it really is work we do together with producers now—having key characters present on social media to create hype, for example.

From a regulatory point of view, we also have to have the support to make sure that those platforms that people are finding content on have responsibilities towards Canadian content to make sure that it’s visible. And it’s accessible. And it’s promoted appropriately. We need all of those regulatory tools, and we need those relationships between broadcasters and producers, in order for content to really reach the audience that we want to reach.

RM: My sense from you is that your strategy, at least for certain kinds of shows, may include having content that was commissioned from producers by CBC not only appear on CBC TV or Gem, but also on other platforms where audiences are. Is that a fair comment?

MB: I think we need all of it. We do need a strong core of content available on a platform like CBC Gem, because it is the destination for Canadian content. But the fact of the matter is, there are audiences that basically live on platforms like YouTube and will not be drawn elsewhere. And our responsibility as a public broadcaster is to reach Canadians where they are. We have an awful lot of content available already on YouTube, for instance, just to speak of that platform. We have to go out and reach people where they habitually consume content, because that’s where we can reach them with trusted news. That’s where we can also give them a taste of Canadian comedy, of Canadian drama, of kids’ shows.

RM: Last question—will partnering with independent producers continue to be critically important to CBC/Radio- Canada in fulfilling its mandate for key genres of programming?

MB: It is impossible to imagine anything else. We are the home of Canadian content. Who else is going to produce it with us, for the benefit of Canadians, but independent producers? We know that’s a long-term relationship, and we want to continue to care for it.

Canada’s largest commissioner of original Canadian content

$400 million+ per year investedin independent production across Canada

300+ original TV shows from independent producers every year

80+ shows created for streaming services, including CBC Gem

20 million+ Canadians use CBC/Radio-Canada’s digital services every month

$1.9 billion annual budget

$72.9 billion contributed to the Canadian economy every year

630,000+ jobs provided

45,000 hours of Canadian TV content, including:

10,000 hours of Canadian drama, comedy, and other entertainment

20,000 hours of kids’ content

For every dollar invested in the public broadcaster, two dollars are reinjected into the Canadian economy.